在刑法系统里 In the criminal justice system,
两个职能不同但同等重要的机构 the people are represented
代表人民行使权力 by two separate yet equally important groups:
警察负责调查罪案 The police who investigate crime,
检察官对罪犯提起诉讼 and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders.
以下就是他们的故事 These are their stories.
我希望给你们打电话是对的 I hope I did the right thing calling you.
我可不想给谁找麻烦 I don't want to make any trouble for anybody.
您敲他家门了吗 You tried knocking on their door?
我都拿脚跺地板了 I banged on the floor with my foot
但是他们才不管是几点呢 but they don't care what time it is.
听见了没 两个小时一直都这样 You see? For two hours, it's been going on like this,
正对我卧室下面 right under my bedroom.
使劲点敲 他们岁数大了 Knock louder. They're old people.
Steinmetz先生 夫人 我们是警察 Mr. And Mrs. Steinmetz? It's the police.
有可能吃了安眠药都梦到爪哇国去了 Probably dozed off to Leno.
可我也得睡觉啊 Well, I need my sleep.
我八点的时候有个牙根管手术 I'm getting a root canal at 8:00.
Steinmetz先生 Mr. Steinmetz?
站着别动 You stay put.
Joey 过来 Joey, over here.
Steinmetz先生半夜出去的 So, midnight, that's when Mr. Steinmetz went out?
他在楼下给我开的门 He opened the door for me downstairs.
他经常出去散步 He always goes out walking.
Ursula说因为二战 Ursula said it's because of the war.
他睡不着 He can't sleep.
他们俩都是大屠杀的幸存者 Both of them, they're Holocaust survivors.
除了电视的声音 So, besides the TV,
您还听见从他家里传出来什么声音么 did you hear anything else from their apartment?
比如 枪声 争执声 Like, uh, shouts, signs of a struggle?
没有 我洗了个澡就睡觉了 No. I took a bath and I went to bed.
他们每天晚上都会开电视 Every night, they have the TV on,
但从没超过一个小时 but never for more than an hour.
谢谢 Franzel夫人 Oh. Thanks, Mrs. Franzel.
如果需要其他信息 我们会联系您的 If we need any more, we'll call you.
一个人孤独死去 很悲惨的 Dying alone, it's a tragedy.
钱包里有18块 $18 in the wallet,
床头柜上放着钻戒 diamond ring on the nightstand,
也没人碰银餐具 nobody touched the silverware.
老太太有多发性硬化症 Old lady with MS.
死亡时间大概有三四个小时了 She's been dead three, maybe four hours.
可能和这个有关系 These might have had somethin' to do with it.
两个月的安眠药没了一半 Two months' supply of lullabies, half of them gone.
David Steinmetz的处方药 盐酸氟胺安定30毫克 Dalmane, 30 milligrams, prescribed to David Steinmetz.
四天前开的 Filled four days ago.
岁数太大活着很难 Too old to live.
是啊 但又害怕死亡 Yeah, but too scared to die.
安眠药会把脸弄成那样吗 Sleeping pills supposed to do that to your face?
从床上掉下去摔断鼻子会 Fall out of bed and break your nose, they do.
求求你 我想见她 Please, I want to see her.
求你 Please.
Ursula.
你是David Steinmetz David Steinmetz?
是 Yes.
我们能谈谈吗 Could we talk?
我要给我的女儿Mara打电话 告诉她是我干的 I must call Mara, my daughter, to tell her I did this.
我杀了我的Ursula My Ursula, I killed her.
我杀了我爱的女人 I killed the woman I love.
－＝多米诺字幕组 倾情奉献＝－ 本字幕仅供学习交流之用 严禁用于商业用途
翻译：天然宅
校对：滕小升
后期：高小癫 西西
法律与秩序
第三季 第13集
她70岁了 不能走路 She was 70. She couldn't walk.
视力一直下降 She was losing her sight.
不能在商店工作 She could hardly work in the store.
活这么久她太累了 She was tired of being an old woman.
她有孙子孙女 还有你 Well, she had her grandkids, she had you.
我还能说什么 What could I say?
她被困在那身体里 不是我 She had to live in that body, not me.
一直以来 Ursula都很痛苦 All the time now, Ursula, she was in pain.
她求我帮帮她 She begged me to help her.
所以你把药瓶装满了 So you filled the prescription?
是 我还给她倒了杯水 Yes. And I brought her the glass of water,
帮她吃了药 and I helped her take the pills.
大约是几点 What time was this?
不记得了 很晚了 I, uh, I don't remember. Late.
她睡着了 She fell asleep.
我不忍心看着她死 就出门了 I couldn't watch her die. I left.
我的女儿Mara 我得跟她谈谈 My daughter Mara. I must talk to her.
问话一结束我们就会打给她的 Well, we'll, uh... We'll call her as soon as you're done.
Steinmetz先生 你的妻子 Mr. Steinmetz, did your wife
和其他人说过这事吗 discuss this with anybody else?
没有 只有我们俩知道 No, it was between Ursula and me.
她有留下什么吗 Did she leave anything behind?
比如一封信 You know, maybe a letter?
我们没想... We didn't think...
有的耗了 先生 This won't take much longer, sir.
得 他倒没有扣扳机 Well, uh, he didn't exactly pull the trigger.
但他是拿枪的人 But he held the gun.
二级非蓄意谋杀 协助他人自杀 Man two, assisted suicide.
拜托 你们真的要审理这件案子 Come on. You really gonna run with this?
他有70岁了 The guy's 70 years old.
又不是为了保险金砸杀她老婆什么的 It's not like he whacked her for the insurance money.
说不定还真是这样 Maybe he did.
没有死者的遗言 我们只有他的一面之词 With no note from her, all we have is his word.
我们去和他女儿谈谈 Well, we're gonna talk to the daughter.
同时对他提出控告 In the meantime, we charge him.
也许她这几周心情很沮丧 Maybe she was depressed the past few weeks,
但是身体还是那样 but physically, she was the same
这几年都是那样 she's always been for the past couple of years.
你父亲说她病情加重了 Your father said she was getting worse.
我不知道有多重 I didn't know how bad things were.
- 她没有什么迹象吗 - 没有 - And she gave no sign? - No...
比如诀别什么的 Nothing that could be like a last goodbye?
她很期待参加Jared的受戒礼（犹太教13岁开施受戒礼） She was looking forward to Jared's bar mitzvah.
干了12年社工 After 12 years of social work,
你本会以为我有多聪明 you'd think I'd be smart enough
能看出些苗头 to, uh, pick up on the signals.
你父亲呢 What about from your father?
他就像一块岩石 Dad's a rock.
他肯定痛苦死了 It must've torn him apart,
但又不表现出来 but he didn't let anything show.
他知道在经历了那么多之后 He knew what it was like for her
她有多痛苦 after all she's been through.
集中营 The camps.
我小时候 When I was growing up,
妈妈每天晚上都尖叫着醒来 my mother would wake up screaming every night.
我还以为所有爸爸胳膊上都有纹身呢 I thought every parent had a tattoo on his arm.
好了 谢谢 Okay, thank you.
我们和医生谈过了 We talked to the doctor
Steinmetz是失眠症患者 and Steinmetz is an insomniac.
医生给他开盐酸氟胺安定已经有十年了 The doctor's been givin' him Dalmane for 10 years.
一次开两个月的量吗 Two months at a time?
我的意思是 他昨天可没有吃安眠药 I mean, this guy didn't get his MD yesterday.
医生肯定会知道他计划什么了 He must have known what was in the works.
或者医生是为了让自己信任的病人 Or he was saving a trusted patient
少跑几次药店 a few trips to the pharmacy.
州医学会还能罚罚他 我们就算了 State Board may slap his wrist, but we can't touch him.
是 我们手里也就只有 Well, we're just left with
Steinmetz的说法了 Steinmetz's version of history.
怎么 这家伙还边写边擦啊 What, the guy writes with an eraser?
照她女儿说的 According to the daughter,
老太太还在策划外孙的受戒礼呢 the old lady was planning her grandsors bar mitzvah.
现在我觉得这很有问题 Now I hear that's a pretty big deal.
有人会从芝加哥坐公交去 Hey, some people would take the bus from Chicago.
我的话也就送个支票吧 Me, I'd just send a check.
Lennie 我猜那老太太是想撑到受戒礼的 Lennie, my guess is the lady would stick around.
也许是她受够了自己的病 Maybe she got tired of being an invalid.
也许是他受够了和一个病人生活 And maybe he got tired of livin' with one.
我妈得个流感 都能把我爸弄得抓狂 My mother'd get the flu, my old man would go nutty.
好 就算他杀了她 Okay, say he killed her,
那他是怎么把要弄到她胃里的呢 how'd he get the pills in her stomach?
我怀疑可能他骗她说那是薄荷糖 I doubt he told her they were breath mints.
简单地说 是协助自杀 Keep it simple. Assisted suicide.
我去和Ben谈谈 I'll talk to Ben.
好好读读报告 Ben Read the paper, Ben,
弄清楚主次 it'll give you a sense of proportion.
他承认谋杀 He confessed to the murder.
抢劫杀人是谋杀 Mob hit is a murder.
把婴儿扔进垃圾车是谋杀 Baby left in a dumpster is a murder.
陪审团会认为这个案子是爱使之然 This, a jury will see as an act of love.
那是C级重罪啊 如果我们不起诉 And a C felony. We dismiss,
下周 一堆男人会说 next week, a dozen men'll claim
自己用点38口径手枪帮助老婆自杀 they helped their wives commit suicide with a.38.
到时你得再去说服陪审团事情是另外一回事 And you'll be there to convince a jury otherwise.
又不是我立的法 Adam I didn't write the statutes, Adam.
是啊 怜悯的度 Yeah, mercy has more shadings
州众议院可把握不好 than can be grasped by a state assembly.
Steinmetz也不指望我们会好心发慈悲了 Steinmetz isn't counting on our goodwill, either.
他雇了Gary Lowenthal He's hired Gary Lowenthal.
和这个可怜的混蛋达成认罪协议吧 Plead the poor bastard out.
你想抓70岁老人进监狱 You want to put a 70-year-old man in prison?
怎么 Ben 这是对父权的报复吗 What is it, Ben, payback time for father figures?
Gary 我受纽约州法律约束 I am bound by the laws of the State of New York, Gary.
Stone先生 我已经失去母亲了 Mr. Stone, I've already lost my mother.
我不想再失去父亲 I... I don't want to lose my father as well.
你的那些法律能网开一面吗 Can you see your way past those laws?
你父亲都认罪了 我没办法 I can't see my way past a confession.
这个我来搞定 There I can help.
我已提交排除先前认罪证词的动议 I'm moving to suppress the confession.
我委托人当时被剥夺获得律师协助的权利 My client was denied his right to counsel.
他说要见他女儿 He asked to see his daughter.
但警方拒绝了他的要求 直到拿到他的供词 The police refused until they had his statement.
她是律师么 She's a lawyer?
她是社工 She's a social worker.
Gary,
我都已经尽量把我另一边脸让给你打了（不要得寸进尺） I've turned the other cheek as far as I could on this.
Steinmetz夫人 不管她多老 身体多不好 Mrs. Steinmetz, no matter what her age or her condition,
《圣经》名言 要大度 对待别人打你的脸 要把另一边脸也转过去让他打
都有权期望自己的丈夫 had a right to expect her husband
提高她的生活质量 而不是结束她的生命 to enance her life, not to help her end it.
那是你的想法 我更想知道法官怎么想 That's your opinion. I prefer a judge's.
Fare诉Michael C一案中 加利福尼亚法院认为 In Fare v. Michael C., a California court held
疑犯要求见假释官 that asking for your probation officer
等同于要求见律师 is equivalent to asking for a lawyer.
但是最高法院驳回了 And the Supreme Court overturned.
被伦奎斯特法官剥夺的权力 What Rehnquist takes away,
纽约州又归还给了被告人 the State can give back to a defendant.
威廉 伦奎斯特（1924-2005）当时美国最高法院首席大法官
法官大人 即使我们给予社工 Uh, Your Honor, even if we were to give to social workers
与律师和假释官相同的权利 the same standing we give lawyers or probation officers,
但Steinmetz先生与他女儿是私人关系啊 Mr. Steinmetz's relationship to his daughter is personal,
而并非职业关系 it is not professional.
我们可以证明Feder夫人 We can show that Mrs. Feder
帮她父亲申请了社保和医保 helped her father apply for Social Security and Medicare,
为他 and performed any number
提供了很多专业服务 of professional services on his behalf.
Steinmetz要见他女儿时只说了她的名字 Mr. Steinmetz asked for his daughter by name.
警察又怎么知道 There's no way you can expect police officers
她的职业呢 to know her professional status.
Steinmetz先生 你有告诉警察 Mr. Steinmetz, did you tell the police
为什么要见你女儿吗 why you wanted to see your daughter?
是的 我告诉他们她是社工 Yes. I told them she was a social worker
会知道该做什么的 and that she would know what to do.
对不起 Ben Sorry, Ben.
在Steinmetz看来 Mr. Steinmetz's right to counsel,
他获得律师协助的权利被忽视了 as he understood it, was ignored.
警察本应该再谨慎一点的 The police should've been more cautious.
你们有麻烦了 告诉他们吧 You have a problem, take it up with them.
有什么问题啊 What's the problem?
五个警察都听见他说他杀了她 Five cops heard him say he killed her.
他当时伤心过度 脑袋迷糊 才会那么说的 Uttered in a moment of grief and confusion.
Lowenthal让他出庭的时候 By the time Lowenthal gets him on the stand,
他会说他当时的意思是 Steinmetz will explain that he meant to say
他逼的妻子自杀 he drove his wife to suicide.
法医报告呢 ME's report in?
还在等毒性检验结果 We're still waiting for the tox exam.
我就指它了 I'll lean on 'em.
Ben...
Paul 他已经做了次伪证 Paul, we know he perjured himself once.
在放他走之前 Before I let him walk, I would
我想找出他还说过什么谎 like to find out how many other lies he's told.
我电话上不是告诉你了 我手上的只是初步报告 I told you on the phone, what I have is preliminary.
想要确切结果 一个月以后吧 You want it etched in stone, come back in a month.
拜托 Rodgers 检察官可都在后面抽我鞭子了 Come on, Rodgers. We got a DA cracking the whip.
好吧 但是你要明白 All right, as long as you understand
这份文件我上司还没签字批准呢 my boss hasn't signed off on this yet.
谢谢 Thank you.
没事 "Steinmetz Ursula" Yeah. "Steinmetz, Ursula."
药物摄入过量 苯二氮类安眠药 Drug overdose, benzodiazepine.
胃里发现900毫克残余 Found 900 milligrams in her stomach.
足够害死她么 Is that enough to kill her?
够了 还没算已经消化那部分呢 Hmm, yeah. That's not counting what she'd already digested.
呼吸衰竭 900毫克就够了 Yeah, respiratory failure, 900 would do it.
等一下 肯定是有人弄错了 Wait a minute, somebody screwed up here.
怎么了 How's that?
我得 回实验室再查一遍这些数据 Let me, uh, run these numbers by the lab again.
等会 我们没时间了 Hold it. We don't have time for that.
现在就说吧 怎么回事 Tell us now. What's it say?
根据实验结果 Well, according to the labs,
她肝脏内的盐酸氟胺安定含量 the amount of Dalmane found in her liver
表明她吸收的量 indicates a level of absorption
不足以引起呼吸衰竭 insufficient to cause a respiratory failure.
她那么老了 还有多发性硬化症 Well, she's an old lady with MS.
我是说 她吸收的药量够引发心脏病么 I mean, did she absorb enough to give her a heart attack?
不够 准确的说 No, if you believe this,
她消化的药量不够导致她死亡 she didn't digest enough pills to kill her.
所以说 她停止呼吸 So if she stopped breathing,
说不定是因为有人闷她 maybe it's because somebody choked her.
没错 那个人还弄断了她的鼻子 Yeah, somebody broke her nose, too.
说不定他留下的线索不止这些 Might not be the only tracks he left behind.
谢谢 Thank you.
她死那天晚上 他们大吵了一架 The night she OD'd, they had a big argument,
就在大厅那 right out here in the hall,
就在他出去散步之前 just before he went to his walk.
什么时间呢 And what time was this?
十点半左右 门关上了 他出去了 10：30. The door closed, and he left.
时间您确定么 You sure about the time?
是 我正要去上班 Mmm-hmm. I was just getting ready to go to work.
电话公司晚11点到白8点的班 11：00 to 8:00 shift at the phone company.
"842号接线员 请问您要接哪个城市" "Operator 842. What city, please?"
Lennie.
谢谢 Thank you.
她说Steinmetz十点半出的门 She says Steinmetz left at 10:30,
楼上的说是半夜 upstairs said midnight.
他又回来了 我想我知道为什么 He came back, and I think I know what for.
是么 看这个 Yeah? Watch this.
拉开门 打开灯 I open the door, I turn on the light,
看见了这个 I find this.
和椅子一套的 It matches the armchair.
上面是血 而且是近期的 That's blood, and it's recent.
我赌10块血是Steinmetz夫人的 I got $10 says it's Mrs. Steinmetz's.
现在 不管药是不是他逼她吃的 Now look, whether he force-fed those pills to her or not,
他都回来过看她有没有死 he came back expecting her to be dead.
可惜没有 于是就用这个抱枕完活儿 She wasn't. Finishes the job with the pillow.
这过程中把她的鼻子弄出了血 And bloodies her nose in the process.
他还装模作样在城里绕了一大圈 Takes his lap around the city,
看来我们该同情他 and I guess we're supposed to feel sorry for him.
就算是吞药自杀是她的主意 Well, even if it was her idea to take the pills,
他也没必要用抱枕捂死她吧 he had to finish her off with a pillow?
难道是等不到药物生效了 He couldn't wait for the pill to do the job for him?
你知道吃多少安眠药才能死人吗 Do you know how many sleeping pills is a lethal dose?
不知道 我打赌Steinmetz也不知道 I don't, and I bet Steinmetz doesn't either.
那他为什么没和我们说抱枕的事呢 Well, then why didn't he tell us about the pillow?
因为他知道那会让他看起来很有嫌疑 Because he knew how it would look.
像是他想杀了她 Yeah, like he wanted her dead.
反正如果是我 看见自己老婆躺在地上 All I know is if I found my wife lying on the floor,
我会不惜一切救她的 I would do everything I could to save her,
管它是什么自杀呢 and the hell with suicide.
你就算说破大天 Any way you slice or dice it,
这人也无权 this guy had no right
拿枕头捂她老婆 to wrap a pillow around his wife's face.
别忘了邻居还说他们吵架了 Let's not forget the neighbors heard them arguing.
嘿 一天24小时俩人都在一起 Hey, you spend 24 hours a day together,
不管是青梅竹马还是恩爱缠绵 I don't care if you're Joseph and Mary,
都会惹到对方 you're gonna get on each other's nerves.
等会 他们俩工作也在一个地方 Wait a minute, they work together?
Steinmetz在三十大街有个制衣店 Steinmetz has a tailor shop on 30th Street.
好吧 假设他们太老了不太会 All right. Let's assume that they're too old
因为ox吵架 那还剩什么呢 钱吗 to argue about sex, so that leaves what? Money?
做我们这行的 一般人都不正眼瞧 People treat you like dirt in this business.
可Steinmetz先生不会 Not Mr. Steinmetz.
他尊敬给他干活的人 He has respect for the people who work for him.
为什么 How so?
他也做过这个 你懂我意思吧 The man's been there, you know what I mean?
在波兰的时候 他是纳粹的奴隶 Back in Poland, he was a slave for the Nazis.
他在那的犹太人集中区干活 They had him workiing in some ghetto over there,
罗兹犹太人区 为他们做制服 the Lodz Ghetto, making uniforms for them.
今天有人请病假了么 You got people out sick today?
可不 都感染了经济衰退流感 Yeah, they got recession-itis.
日子不好过啊 那夫妻之间也不太和谐吧 哈 Hard times, that'll press a marriage, huh?
不会 他们不会 No, not these two.
他们经历过更糟的 They've seen worse, you know?
我在这八年了 In the eight years I've been here,
唯一一次他们俩大声说话 the only time they raised their voice
是因为报纸上的什么东西 was about somethin' in the paper.
什么 政治问题 What, politics?
是 波兰的政治问题 Yeah. Polish politics.
Steinmetz夫人每周都让我去一次 Once a week, Mrs. Steinmetz would send me
34号大街的报刊亭 to the newsstand on 34th
给她拿波兰的报纸 to get this Polish paper.
大概三周前吧 And about three weeks ago,
她因为看的某篇文章 she got real upset with Mr. Steinmetz
和Steinmetz先生生气了 over some article she read.
报纸叫什么名字 This paper got a name?
Novejeneik.
"华沙艺术委员会颁发荣誉奖" "Warsaw Arts Council Presents Merit Awards."
还有什么 What else?
"国际法庭对纳粹战犯宣判" "National Tribunal Convicts Nazi War Criminal."
等等 读一下重点部分 Hold it. Give us the highlights.
"Horst Hilsman 姆诺地区的德国官员" "Horst Hilsman, German officer at Chelmno,
"判处死刑" "Sentenced to death.
"对其他战犯进行缺席审判" "Other war criminals tried in absentia.
"一位犹太警察 "In the Lodz Ghetto during the war.
Peter Angermeier 比克瑙的参谋军士..." Peter Angermeier, staff sergeant in Birkenau..."
等一下 Wait a minute.
罗兹犹太人区 Lodz Ghetto.
Steinmetz不就是从罗兹来的吗 Now, wasn't Steinmetz from Lodz?
也许他认识Skulman Maybe he knew Skulman.
所以呢 他老婆不喜欢他朋友 So what? His wife didn't like his friends?
就因为这事杀了她吗 That's something he'd kill her for?
我想Stone先生除了打扰一个可怜的老人 I'd think Mr. Stone would have better things to do
还有很多事可做吧 than to hound a sad old man.
嘿 检察官张张嘴 警察跑断腿 Hey, he squeaks, we go running.
别让我们难做好吗 Feder夫人 Make it easy on us, will you, Mrs. Feder?
他们是有争吵 They'd argue,
没错 关于那场战争 那次大屠杀 yes, about the war, about the Holocaust.
那是他们一辈子的重要时期 It was the defining moment of their lives.
他们有没有谈过 Did they ever talk about
在罗兹犹太人区认识的人 people they knew in the Lodz Ghetto?
我妈妈来自华沙 My mother's from Warsaw.
我父亲来自罗兹 My father's from Lodz,
但是他很少和我说 but he rarely talks about it with me.
他说自己做恶梦就够了 He says he has nightmares enough,
不要让我也一样 he doesn't need to give me any.
你妈妈说起过Jacub Skulman吗 Your mother ever mention the name Jacub Skulman?
没有 他是谁 No. Who's he?
他是波兰的通缉战犯 He's wanted for war crimes in Poland.
没有 她从来没说起过这样的人 No, she'd never talk about anybody like that.
我妈妈受了很大伤害... My mother was a very broken...
她很难把那些痛苦的记忆封存起来 She found it very hard to shut out the memories,
我父亲也是 like my father.
我三年前把她送到心理医生那 I sent her to a therapist three years ago,
是一位治疗幸存者的拉比 a rabbi who worked with survivors.
她看了治疗师 怎么没有人告诉我们 She was seeing a therapist, and nobody told us?
四个月前她就不去了 She stopped going four months ago.
她不告诉我原因 She wouldn't tell me why.
尽管我很想帮忙 Much as I'd like to help,
可我和Steinmetz夫人的谈话都是享有保密特权的 any communication I had with Mrs. Steinmetz is privileged.
教徒向神职人员的告解和坦白享有保密特权 非教徒同意神职人员不得公开内容
我必须考虑到她家人的感受 I have to consider the feelings of her family.
哦 那你是在保护哪位家人呢 Oh, which family member are you protecting?
她丈夫么 The husband?
我们换个说法 拉比 Let's, uh, try a little softball here, Rabbi.
Steinmetz夫人不再来这儿的原因 The reason that Mrs. Steinmetz stopped coming here,
和她自杀的原因 could it have anything to do
有什么联系吗 with the reason she committed suicide?
我不能告诉你们她说了什么 Well, I... I can't discuss what she told me
但是小组讨论 but I can say the group sessions
能唤起很多记忆 can awaken powerful memories.
比如名字 Jacub Skulman A name? Jacub Skulman?
Skulman 哦 有的 Skulman. Oh, yes.
小组详细的讨论过他的案子 The group discussed his case at length.
是在Steinmetz夫人离开前 Did you discuss it before or after
还是离开后讨论的 Mrs. Steinmetz stopped coming?
之前 Before.
我的一个客户 Liebman夫人 One of my clients, Mrs. Liebman,
她很显然认识Skulman apparently she knew Skulman.
什么嘛 我感觉像是来这抓鬼似的 I don't know, I feel like we're chasing a ghost here.
Skulmans说不定已经死了 This guy Skulmans probably dead.
那个拉比跟我们玩捉迷藏 可不只是为了充好人 The rabbi wasn't playing catch just to be nice.
他几乎是直说Skulman这个名字 He practically said Skulman's name
刺激了Steinmetz夫人 sent Mrs. Steinmetz running.
那又怎么样 我们在挖掘 So what? I mean, we're digging up stuff
五十年前的事了 that happened 50 years ago.
搞什么 这都快是古代史了 Lennie What the hell, it's ancient history, Lennie.
嘿 我老爸是二战时期的美国士兵 Hey, my old man was a GI in World War II.
是第一批进入布痕瓦尔德集中营的盟军 First regiment into Buchenwald.
他从没忘记过当时看到那些人的感受 And he never forgot how he felt when he saw those people.
他不信教的 但从那天开始 I mean, he wasn't religious, but he said after that day
他相信世间有恶魔存在 he believed in the devil.
这种事不会消逝的 Mike This stuff never went away, Mike.
我还是个女孩的时候 I knew Jacub Skulman in Lodz
就在罗兹区认识了Jacub Skulman when I was a young girl.
他在参加犹太区治安会之前 He was an apprentice tailor
是个裁缝学徒 before he joined the Ordnungsdienst.
就是犹太人的警察机关 The ghetto police.
德国人组织了... 一个犹太人的傀儡政府 The Germans formed a... A Jewish government.
以便统治犹太人区 Puppets to rule the ghetto.
是啊 让犹太人管犹太人 Yeah, you let the Jews police themselves,
说不定他们干活就更来劲了 maybe they'll work harder for you.
是说不定他们就以为自己会活下来了 Maybe they thought they will let them live.
相信这个就会成为战犯吗 And believing that makes you a war criminal?
我们当然相信了 Of course we believed.
相信一切能让我们活下来的事 Anything to make it stop.
但是Skulman做的过分了 But Skulman took it a step further.
Skulman.
在我们给纳粹党卫军做制服的血汗工厂里 In the sweatshop where we made uniforms for the SS,
Skulman就是个畜生 Skulman was a brute.
如果我们不完成定额他就打人 He beat us if we didn't make the quota.
那Skulman后来怎么样呢 What happened to Skulman?
德国人1944年彻底清洗犹太区的时候 When the Germans cleared the ghetto in 1944,
他... 更不可一世了 him being so... so high-and-mighty,
他最后和其他人一样 he finished like everyone else,
被送上了开往奥斯维辛集中营的火车上 on a train to Auschwitz.
Ursula Steinmetz 你认识她吗 Ursula Steinmetz, do you know her?
她是Dworkin拉比治疗小组的 She was in Rabbi Dworkin's group.
认识 她也问了我Skulman的事 还有他的家庭 Yes, she, too, asked me about Skulman, his family.
她觉得她认识他 She thought she knew him.
我就把我记得的事告诉了她 I only told her what I remember.
Skulman资料分布很零散 大多数都还在波兰 Skulmans spotty, most of the records are still in Poland.
挺久远啦 You know, it's quite historic in a way.
波兰以前从没因战争罪 Poland has never before
起诉过任何一位犹太人 prosecuted a Jew for war crimes.
我就不明白为什么Skulman这样的人 Well, I don't understand why a guy like Skulman
会自己站到纳粹一边 would line himself up with the Nazis.
而且自寻死路 And slit his own throat?
他不是唯一一个被骗的 He wasn't the only one who was deceived.
犹太区的老人们想 You see, the elders of the ghetto reasoned that
如果犹太人能向德意志帝国证明自己的经济价值 if the Jews could prove their economic value to the Reich,
就能保住性命 their lives would be spared.
制作一件制服 就多一天的活头 So each uniform you made added a day to your life.
有人能肯定 Does anybody know for sure
Skulman走出了奥斯维辛吗 that Skulman walked out of Auschwitz?
波兰政府有目击证人 The Polish government has eyewitnesses.
我猜他在罗兹的"优良表现" I guess the virtues that allowed him to survive in Lodz
让他活过了奥斯维辛 carried him through Auschwitz.
那他现在应该很大岁数了 He'd be an old man by now.
他是1922年生人 现在该有70岁了 His birth date was 1922, so he's 70 years old.
档案里有张照片 There's a photograph in the archives.
给我们吧 We'll take it.
和Steinmetz一个岁数 Same age as Steinmetz.
一样工作 一个集中营 Same job, same camp.
画质实在是不怎么好 Sorry about the quality.
Jacub Skulman 42级 Jacub Skulman, class of '42.
这么多的巧合加在一起就真的很可疑了 Coincidences add up to probability.
没错 这可吓到了妻子 Yeah, and what spooked the wife.
终极恶魔 The ultimate evil.
让奴隶管理种植园 Convince the slaves to run the plantation.
向德国人的创造性致敬 Yeah, hats off to German ingenuity.
如果Steinmetz就是Skulman 他的妻子发现了 If Steinmetz is Skulman, and his wife found out,
他不会想让她说出去的 he'd want to keep her quiet.
就杀了她 这个人 By killing his wife? This guy?
我不清楚 I don't know.
战犯会磕鞋后跟敬礼 War criminals click their heels.
前臂上可不会有数字纹身 They don't have numbers tattooed on their forearms.
逮捕他 Arrest him.
公路128号 16... Highway 128, 16...
一个70岁老年人能走多远 How far can a 70-year-old man walk?
第六大道1290号 1290 Sixth Avenue. 1290 Sixth...
那个看着像他 That looks like him.
靠边停 Pull over.
Steinmetz先生 Mr. Steinmetz.
怎么了 Yes?
David Steinmetz 你因谋杀Ursula Steinmetz David Steinmetz, you're under arrest
被逮捕了 for the murder of Ursula Steinmetz.
你有权保持沉默 You have the right to remain silent.
你所说的一切 Anything you do say can and will be
将会成为呈堂证供 used against you in a court of law.
你搞不出C级重罪 所以就痴心妄想 You can't make a C felony, so you shoot the moon
以A级重案起诉他 and charge him with an A.
你的委托人拒绝承认二级非蓄谋杀人罪时已经开始痴心妄想了 Your client shot the moon when he refused a man two plea.
现在等着他的就是谋杀指控了 Now he's looking at murder.
我妈妈自杀了 Stone先生 My mother took her own life, Mr. Stone.
我并不因此骄傲开心 That doesn't make me proud or happy,
但是我尊重她的记忆 but I respect her memory.
她不想要这样 她想要的是平和 She didn't want this. She wanted peace.
她告诉你的么 Did she tell you that?
我父亲告诉我的 My father told me.
他告诉你他用抱枕捂死她了吗 Did he also tell you that he smothered her with a pillow?
你根本不知道 我父亲他... You have no idea. My father...
邻居...都为他保释 The neighbors are... are paying his bail.
他们 还帮忙支付Lowenthal先生的律师费 They-they're helping to pay for Mr. Lowenthal's services.
也就是说认识他的人都相信他 Which means people who know him, believe him.
他们没看过证据 They haven't seen the evidence.
也没证据可看 There's none to see.
你们想怎么玩就怎么玩吧 Turn up the flame as high as you want,
但这案子翻不出泡泡的 this one's not gonna boil.
你们有动机... You stir in motive...
你是说推测 You mean speculation?
大吵大闹罢了 Ben It's all sound and fury, Ben,
你知道结果会是什么 and you know what that gets you.
如果我们没搞错 他的确是Jacub Skulman If I'm right and he is Jacub Skulman,
他谋杀了自己的妻子以掩盖秘密 and he did murder his wife to cover up his secret,
他的结果就是25年至无期徒刑 what it gets him is 25-to-life.
那如果你们错了呢 Stone先生 What if you're wrong, Mr. Stone?
看看他的胳膊 有烙印的 Look at his arm. He's been branded once.
但你们的所作所为... But what you're doing...
帮我们的那些人 Those same people who are helping us
就会永远背弃唾弃我们了 will turn around and spit in our faces forever.
你最好是有要紧事解决 Robinette先生 It'd better be important, Mr. Robinette.
45年的老档案 45-year-old files,
这一个月我都得靠吃抗组胺撑过来了 I'll be living on antihistamines for a month.
有发现吗 You found something?
有 也没有 Yes and no.
1947年五月 是David Steinmetz David Steinmetz went eyeball-to-eyeball
第一次亲眼见到自由女神像（来到美国） with Miss Liberty, May of '47.
那Jacub Skulman呢 What about Jacub Skulman?
没有发现 That's the no.
他吃汉堡还是苹果派这种小事 If he's eating burgers and apple pie,
我们是不会记录的 we don't have a record of it.
Steinmetz来办移民的时候 When Steinmetz filed immigration,
有出示身份证明吗 did he show any ID?
嘿 当时他身上有件衣服 Hey, if this poor slob had a shirt on his back,
都已经算是很幸运的了 he was lucky.
"识别标记 是前臂上的数字纹身" "Identifying mark: Numbers tattooed on his forearm."
什么数字 What were the numbers?
抱歉了 Sorry.
那五年中 大约有十五万集中营幸存者 In five years, about 150,000 camp survivors
来到大熔炉（美国） joined the melting pot.
哪还有时间问那么细啊 Who had the time to get specific?
好消息是 纳粹办事很严谨 都接近狂热了 The good news, the Nazis were methodical, bordering on anal.
凡事都有详细记录 They kept specific records of everything.
可惜坏消息就是他们销毁记录 The bad news is they were almost as methodical
也几乎同样严谨 at destroying the records.
几乎吗 Almost?
是 Yeah.
这 Here.
就是这个 Here it is.
这呢 "1944年8月21日 Right here. "August 21, 1944,
"131人从罗兹犹太人区转移至奥斯维辛集中营 "131 men arrived from the Lodz Ghetto at Auschwitz.
"他们胳膊上的数字纹身 "The numbers that were tattooed on their arms
"是从7566号开始 "Ranged from 7566
至7696号" to 7696, inclusive."
有对应数字的名字吗 Do you have names corresponding to the numbers?
这我就没辙了 但是我们知道 I can't help you with that. But we do know that
Jacub Skulman也是同一天到达的 Jacub Skulman arrived on that same day.
我在给你委托人证明自己清白的机会 I'm offering your client a chance to prove his innocence.
他如果照做 然后呢 And when he does, what?
你就在他前额上纹个大写的L吗 You tattoo a capital "L" On his forehead?
那个数字代表着难以想象的苦难 That number is a symbol of unimaginable suffering.
如果它不是131个数字之一 And if it's not one of 131 numbers,
我们就能确定他不是Jacub Skulman we'll know for sure he's not Jacub Skulman.
你清楚你在问什么吗 Ben Don't you even see what you're asking, Ben?
要求他用那个数字 Demanding that he use that number
证明他的清白 多残忍 to prove his innocence is an obscenity.
不 Gary Uh, no, Gary.
杀了他的老婆以求自保 The obscenity is a man killing his wife
那才叫残忍 to save his own skin.
还是让法官决定吧 We'll let a judge decide.
我不太明白 Lowenthal先生 I don't understand, Mr. Lowenthal.
如果你的委托人不是这个Skulman If your client isn't this character, Skulman,
为什么不私下在Stone先生的办公室里 why not disclose the number
看看那个数字呢 in the privacy of Mr. Stone's office,
这不就没事了么 and put the matter to bed?
因为事情肯定会从Stone先生办公室泄露出去 Because it won't stay in Mr. Stone's office.
那宪法第五修正案呢 What happened to the Fifth Amendment?
至少 Stone先生 If nothing else, Mr. Stone
很有可能是在要我们自证其罪 is asking for possible self-incrimination.
最高法院规定第五修正法案 The Supreme Court ruled that the Fifth Amendment
只适用于证词类证据 only applies to testimonial evidence.
展示纹身号码和出示指纹 This is no different from using fingerprints
或者指认没什么区别 or an identification in a police line-up.
我们先把法律放一边行么 Look, can we put the law aside for a minute?
如果这数字很接近 We all know that if these numbers are close,
他就没有机会了 he doesn't stand a chance.
陪审团就会误给他定罪 The jury will convict him for the wrong reasons.
就因为他根本没干过的事么 Something he may have done in another lifetime.
一个不能走的老人死了 An elderly woman who couldn't walk is dead
就因为那个人想让世人忘了他干过什么 because that man wanted the world to forget what he did.
我不是在说什么闹剧 Ben I'm not talking melodrama here, Ben.
我在说灾难 I'm talking tragedy.
法官大人 这有偏见 Your Honor, it's prejudicial.
尽管Stone先生的要求我不喜欢 Although what Mr. Stone is asking disgusts me,
我的肠道生命力很顽强 my intestinal tract is still intact.
Steinmetz在今天下午三点前 Mr. Steinmetz will appear in Mr. Stone's office
出现在Stone先生的办公室里 no later than 3:00 this afternoon.
Ben 你可是在搞穿越啊 Ben, you are walking through history.
要是栽了 希望上帝保佑你 God help us if you fall down.
7581.
现在我们知道自称 And we now know that the man
David Steinmetz的这个人 calling himself David Steinmetz,
和Jacub Skulman同一天到达奥斯维辛 arrived at Auschwitz the same day as Jacub Skulman.
我本来还抱有希望不是的 I was hoping.
我也是 Yeah, so was I.
我是Robinette Robinette.
好的 Okay.
你办公室里有位司法部的人 Someone from the Justice Department is in your office.
我这是帮你省个麻烦 I'm giving you a break.
我会把Steinmetz 或者叫Skulman I'll take Steinmetz or Skulman
这个人从你这接手 or whoever he is, off your hands.
然后把他引渡回波兰 And extradite him to Poland?
干嘛不呢 1936年就有这条约了 Why not? We've had a treaty in effect since 1936.
我对纽约州的人民 I have an obligation
有义务 to the people of the State of New York.
Ursula Steinmetz是其中的一个 Ursula Steinmetz was one of those people.
我们处理完他才能回波兰 Poland can have him when we're through with him.
一个人死了 那是悲剧 One person dies, it's a tragedy.
几百万人那就只是统计数据了 是么 （斯大林语 西方国家认为斯大林和希特勒一样参与犹太人灭绝屠杀） Millions, it's a statistic, right?
我不是那个意思 That is not what I'm saying.
很好 斯大林五十年前也这么说的 Good. Stalin said it 50 years ago.
如果你给这个混蛋定罪 Look, if you convict the son of a bitch,
他服完刑之后才能引渡 he can't be extradited until he serves out his sentence.
他都七十岁了 也就是说他永远没法被引渡 Which, for a 70-year-old man, means never.
我代表波兰政府表明 On behalf of the Polish government we're commencing
下周起就会准备引渡事宜了 an extradition proceeding next week.
上个月 我女儿在看《安妮日记》 Last month, my daughter was reading Diary of Anne Frank,
她还以为是虚构的 and she thought it was fiction.
我这个案子查不动了 So I'm running in circles with this case.
如果我赢了 If I win,
Steinmetz或者说Skulman Steinmetz or Skulman
就会因谋杀妻子入狱 goes to prison for murdering his wife,
但是世人就永远不会知道 but the world will never really know
他以前的滔天罪行了 the extent of his original crimes.
如果我输了 那么判决结果结果反而 And if I lose, the verdict goes a long way
会有利Steinmetz声称 to bolster Steinmetz's claim
波兰政府引渡错人了 that Poland is trying to extradite the wrong man.
不管怎样 Either way,
我都是在帮大屠杀凶手掩盖罪行 I'm helping a mass murderer cover up his crimes.
Ben 有人在我们的司法范围内被谋杀了 Ben, a woman was murdered in our jurisdiction.
那才是我们唯一的当务之急 And that's our only priority.
那我们岂不就是在帮他掩盖 So we shield him?
波兰难道没有权利 Poland is not entitled
为了更大的罪行惩罚他么 to punish him for the greater evil?
更大的罪行 Greater evil?
你什么时候成哲学家了 Since when did you get so philosophical?
这个部门不在乎疑犯是波兰人还是纳粹 This office doesn't care about Poles or Nazis
或是萨尔维亚人 亦或克罗地亚人 or any more than it does about Serbs or Croats.
我们不是管坏事的 We're not in the evil business,
我们是管犯罪的 we're in the crime business.
Adam 我也许想错了 但是我觉得 在所有人中 Adam, I may be wrong but I thought that, of all people,
你应该是最希望...（他能在波兰受审） you would want...
这个人杀了他妻子 The man killed his wife.
审理他 让他伏法 我想要的只有这个 Try him, convict him. That's all I want.
法官大人 美国最高法院 United States Supreme Court, Your Honor,
在Younger对Harris一案中 in Younger v. Harris determined
判定联邦法院不得干涉 that a Federal court may not interfere
正在进行的各州内部刑事起诉进程 with an ongoing State criminal proceeding
除非起诉 unless the prosecution was
是恶意的或是骚扰 brought in bad faith or as harassment.
Younger一案仅规定联邦法院不得用禁令式救助和 The Younger case specified the interference proscribed
确认赔偿救助的方法干涉各州的案件诉讼 was injunctive or declaratory relief, Your Honor.
道理都是一样的 法官大人 And the principle is the same, Your Honor.
在起诉重罪上 州司法机构的利益 The State's interest in prosecuting a felon
比联邦司法机关的更重要 outweigh the Federal interest.
我们说的不是联邦司法机关的利益 We're not talking about Federal interests.
我们是在说国际条约 We're talking about international treaties.
我们在说历史债务 We are talking about historical debt.
我们是在说残忍杀害自己妻子的人 We're talking about a man who brutally murdered his wife.
他是残杀 He aided and abetted
无辜犹太人的帮凶 in the extermination of scores of innocent Jews.
退一万步说 The bottom line:
如果纽约州坚持起诉 If the State continues with this prosecution,
那么Steinmetz将死在牢狱中 Mr. Steinmetz will die in prison
永远不会因为反人类罪受到审判 and never be tried for crimes against humanity.
那我们就必须放弃审判一个谋杀嫌疑犯吗 And we must allow a suspected murderer to go untried.
他会因为更大的罪行受审的 He will be tried for the greater evil.
两位 看来不管我怎么扔这颗骰子 Gentlemen, it appears that whichever way I roll the dice,
它都是蛇眼了（掷骰子出现两个一点 为最小点数 为坏点数） it comes up snake eyes.
法官大人... Your Honor...
Stone先生 已经起诉被告了吗 Mr. Stone, has the defendant been indicted?
是的 法官大人 He has, Your Honor.
在我看来 So, as I see it,
纽约州已有足够的证据 the State has sufficient evidence
形成一个初步合理的案件了 to make its prima facie case.
虽然批准禁令令很麻烦 In as much as the burden for granting a restraining order,
审判成功的可能性也很大 is the likelihood of success at trial,
我有义务批准Stone先生的动议 I am obligated to grant Mr. Stone's motion.
将引渡听证会推迟 The extradition hearing will be delayed
直到纽约州处理完Steinmetz先生的案子后 until the State is through with Mr. Steinmetz.
我很高兴自己不用像你一样要背水一战 检察官 I'm glad I'm not in your 9-and-a-half Ds, counselor.
几个月前 凌晨十二点半 Several months ago, at half past midnight,
Ursula Steinmetz遭人杀害 someone killed Ursula Steinmetz.
他用枕头捂住了 He held a pillow to the face
这个七十岁老人的脸 of this 70-year-old grandmother
直到她不再呼吸 until she could no longer gasp for air.
我要给你们看那个带有她 I will show you that pillow and the bloodstains on it
她鼻骨骨折出的血的枕头 from her fractured nose.
她的死因确定了 So there can be little doubt as to how she died.
这次审判是为弄清楚杀害她的原因 The issue of this trial is why,
一旦明白了原因，就知道是谁干的了 and once we understand why, the who is undeniable.
Steinmetz住的地方没有遭到行窃 The Steinmetz residence was not burglarized.
所以杀人动机不是贪婪 也不是嫉妒 So the motive wasn't greed, and it wasrt envy,
也不是报仇 and it wasn't revenge.
而是历史 It was history.
David Steinmetz先生 Ursula的丈夫 And Mr. David Steinmetz, Ursula's husband,
很清楚的意识到历史只会 was well aware that history can only be written
由幸存者撰写 by the survivors.
然而Steinmetz先生 And Mr. Steinmetz,
丝毫不想自己的历史被撰写 he didn't want his personal history written at all.
要是历史记载清晰 If only history was so clear.
要是有知道真相的目击者 If only we had a witness to what had happened,
我们大家现在就可以回家 这案子也就结了 then we could all just go home and be done with it.
不幸的是 没有这样的目击者 Unfortunately, there isn't such a witness.
尽管Stone先生 And although Mr. Stone's
叙述的故事有道理 telling of the story is reasonable,
但是Ursula Steinmetz在吞下过量镇定药剂 it's just as reasonable to presume
后从床上跌下 摔坏了鼻子这个假设 that after swallowing a lethal dose of sedatives,
也一样有道理 Ursula Steinmetz fell from her bed and broke her nose.
Stone先生想知道所谓杀人的原因 Mr. Stone wants to know why.
就算有 那就是历史告诉我们 If anything, history tells us
人们常常为了解释难以想象的悲剧 that the search for explanations
而找替罪羊 for unimaginable tragedy creates scapegoats.
为什么1920年代的德国陷入萧条 Why was Germany in the '20s trapped in a depression?
不知道原因是吧 就推给犹太人吧 Unthinkable. Blame it on the Jews.
为什么六百万的犹太人被残杀 Why were six million Jews massacred?
很费解是吧 Incomprehensible.
他们必须想办法怪罪别人 They must have been somehow to blame.
Ursula Steinmetz自杀了 Ursula Steinmetz took her own life?
不可思议是吧 Inconceivable.
那肯定和她丈夫有关系 Her husband must have been involved.
David Steinmetz一生经历了无数的灾难 David Steinmetz survived a lifetime of torment.
为了什么呢 For what?
不要把你们不理解的事怪到他头上 Don't blame him for something you might not understand.
根据波兰政府整理的记录 From records compiled by the Polish government,
可以知道Jacub Skulman原居住在罗兹犹太人区 we know that Jacub Skulman resided in the Lodz Ghetto.
他在1944年8月21日 He was transported to Auschwitz
被转送到奥斯维辛 on August 21, 1944.
和Steinmetz先生到达 The same day that
应该是同一天 Mr. Steinmetz supposedly arrived.
Green先生 你能指认一下 Uh, Mr. Green, can you please identify
检方六号证据吗 People's Exhibit Number 6?
好的 这是波兰战犯法庭 Yes. Uh, this is a determination
对于Jacub Skulman of the Polish War Crimes Court
罪行的审判 in the matter of Jacub Skulman.
反对 法官大人 Objection, Your Honor.
法官大人 本庭可以将 Uh, Your Honor, this court can take judicial notice
其他有合法裁判权的法院 of the findings of another court
的判决结果 作为证据采用 of competent jurisdiction.
但如果那完全不相关或带有便见 Not when those findings are completely irrelevant
就不行 and unduly prejudicial.
该审判的结果 The verdict of that trial
与确定动机有关 法官大人 is relevant to establishing motive, Your Honor.
那我只记下判决结果就是了 So, then I will take notice of the verdict alone.
审判的结果是什么 先生 Uh, what was the outcome of the trial, sir?
法院判决Skulman先生 The court found Mr. Skulman
反人类罪罪名成立 guilty of crimes against humanity.
谢谢 Thank you.
在你刚才说的那次波兰战犯的审判中 In the Polish war crimes trial of which you spoke,
允许Skulman先生提出辩诉么 was Mr. Skulman permitted to present a defense?
那是缺席审讯 但是有辩护律师 He was tried in absentia, but there were defense attorneys.
呈交的证据中有 Was there any evidence presented
可以证明Jacub Skulman和David Steinmetz indicating that Jacub Skulman and David Steinmetz
实际上是一个人的么 were in fact the same person?
没有 No.
但是却有证据证明 But there was evidence presented
Skulman是个犹太人是么 that Skulman was a Jew?
与本案无关 法官大人 Relevance, Your Honor?
Stone先生提供这份判决当做证据 Mr. Stone offered the verdict into evidence.
我就应该可以 I should be permitted
质询那份判决的可靠性 to question the competency of that verdict.
回答问题 Answer the question.
是的 Yes.
告诉我 先生 Now, tell me, sir.
你认为Jacub Skulman是战犯么 Would your center consider Jacub Skulman a war criminal?
你要清楚 You have to understand that, uh,
像Skulman先生那样的人 that men like Mr. Skulman,
首先自己也是受害者然后才是犯罪者 were victims before they were criminals.
请回答我的问题 Please answer the question.
不 我不好说 除非看到全部真相 No, l... I couldn't say, unless I saw all of the facts.
但是波兰就能 But Poland could.
是因为Jacub Skulman是个犹太人么 Is that because Jacub Skulman is a Jew?
反对 法官大人 Objection, Your Honor.
收回问题 Withdrawn.
我当时只有16岁 I was only 16 years old,
为了吃饭 and to put food on the table,
我姐姐和我每天要工作15个小时 my sister and I had to work 15 hours a day
制作纳粹制服 making Nazi uniforms.
没有水喝 没有休息 We got no water, we got no rest.
我们的工厂一周一定要生产25套制服 Our shop was forced to produce 25 uniforms a week.
如果没有完成进度呢 What happened if you fell behind schedule?
Jacub Skulman就会打人 Jacub Skulman beat us.
谁干活不快 他就打谁 He beat everyone who was not productive.
Liebman夫人 请您告诉法庭 Mrs. Liebman, please tell the court
你姐姐发生了什么 what happened to your sister.
Anja...
Anja得了风湿 她累垮了 Anja was rheumatic. She collapsed.
Skulman把她扔到火车上 Skulman put her on a train.
不能干活的人 他都会扔到火车上 Anyone unable to work, he put on a train.
开往哪 To where?
奥斯维辛 To Auschwitz.
Liebman夫人 当您对Steinmetz夫人 Mrs. Liebman, what happened when
说起Jacub Skulman的时候 发生了什么 you spoke of Jacub Skulman to Mrs. Steinmetz?
她问了他父亲的职业 She asked questions about his father's profession.
他弟弟的名字 About his brother's name.
他弟弟Chaim是不是死于小儿麻痹 And if his brother, Chaim, died from polio.
我告诉她 他母亲 And when I told her that
很会吹长笛的时候 his mama played a beautiful flute,
Ursula脸都白了 Ursula got pale.
谢谢 Thank you.
您说不能干活的工人 You said that the workers who were not productive
会被送往集中营 是吗 were sent to the camps. Is that correct?
他决定是谁 He decided who.
还会有其他工人上岗吗 And they were replaced by other workers?
是的 Yes.
那如果那些工人多干活的话 And if those workers were productive,
他们就不会驱逐是吧 they avoided deportation?
是 Yes.
那是不是就是说Skulman牺牲了少数人 So it's true then that Skulman saved the majority
却挽救了大多数人的性命呢 by sacrificing the minority?
看着被告 Liebman夫人 Look at the defendant, Mrs. Liebman.
您能完全肯定的说 Can you say without any reasonable doubt
他就是Jacub Skulman吗 that he is Jacub Skulman?
谢谢 Thank you.
我们这是沿着下行扶梯往上走啊 We're walking up the down escalator.
每次快到顶的时候 Every time we get close to the top,
Lowenthal就把速度调快了 Lowenthal turns up the velocity.
你以为会怎么样 What'd you expect?
重塑现实 Trying to reconstruct a reality,
比恶梦更可怕 that's worse than any nightmare.
这让Lowenthal有了很多合理怀疑 Which gives Lowenthal a truckload of reasonable doubt.
至于Steinmetz的真实身份 As to Steinmetz's true identity,
重要的是他妻子怎么想的 what's relevant is what his wife thought.
重要的是他觉得她是怎么想的 What's relevant is what he thought she was thinking.
但是他不开口 她呢又没跟人说过自己的想法 And he's not talking, and she kept her thoughts to herself.
是么 Did she?
那个拉比 The rabbi?
如果Steinmetz夫人和他说了 那也是享有保密特权的 If Mrs. Steinmetz talked to him, it's privileged.
但是她的遗嘱执行人可以放弃这项权利 But her executor can waive that.
她女儿 是吧 That's the daughter, right?
他是我父亲 Stone先生 他不会骗我的 He's my father, Mr. Stone. He would never lie to me.
如果我妈妈在怀疑什么 我也会知道的 And if my mother suspected anything, I would have known.
也许她想保护你呢 Maybe she was trying to protect you.
不 No.
有可能她和拉比说了 There's a chance she talked to your rabbi.
随你们吧 Whatever you want.
但你们会发现 你们错了 But you'll see. You are wrong.
Ursula听到 When Ursula heard
Liebmars夫人对Skulman的描述之后 Mrs. Liebmars description of Skulman,
她很确定 she was convinced.
有太多相似的地方 There were too many similarities.
她丈夫否认一切之后 她来找我 After her husband denied everything, she came to me.
你怎么劝的她 And how did you counsel her?
我告诉她去找相关部门 I told her to go to the authorities.
但她拒绝了 But she refused?
她背负了太多内疚 还有羞耻 She was filled with too much guilt, with shame.
她担心会影响到她的家人 She worried what it would do to her family.
谢谢 Thank you.
你帮助过很多幸存者 是吗 You counsel many survivors, isn't that true?
我每周都和他们见面 是的 I conduct weekly meetings, yes.
是不是很多幸存者 And is it true that many survivors
都带着对过去的内疚活着 live with enormous guilt over the past?
因为那么多人死去 自己还活着感到内疚 They feel guilty about surviving when so many died.
作为治疗专家 As a therapist,
你认为这种内疚合理么 would you call this guilt irrational?
不 Ursula Steinmetz不是那样的 No. Ursula Steinmetz wasn't like that.
没错 她不怪自己 That's right. She didn't blame herself.
她怪她的丈夫 She blamed her husband.
她病了之后 他为她打点一切 When she got sick, he did everything for her.
他背她去卫生间 上楼 He carried her to the bathroom, up the stairs.
周日的时候 他还推着她去公园 On Sundays, he would wheel her through the park
不管自己有多累 no matter how tired he got.
这可不像是谋杀犯 Not the picture of a murderer.
反对 Objection.
收回问题 Withdrawn.
你有没有什么能够表明 What, if any, indications did you have
你母亲是自杀的 Feder that your mother committed suicide, Mrs. Feder?
这五个月 她的身体情况恶化了 Over the past five months, her condition deteriorated.
她不想让我们有负担 She didn't want to burden us anymore.
在她... After...
她去世的几天前 我去看了她 A few days before she died, l... I went to visit her
她给我看了她放遗嘱的地方 and she showed me where she kept her will.
她说想要所有东西都安排好 She told me that she wanted to have all her things in order.
没有问题了 No more questions.
她在笔录里没说过有心愿 She never talked about the will in her deposition.
她在说谎 She's lying.
休息一会 法官大人 Recess, Your Honor?
早点吃午餐 两小时后回来 Early lunch. Be back in two hours.
如果你说的是真话 If you're telling the truth,
为什么等到现在才说遗嘱的事 why did you wait until now to mention your mother's will?
你听见拉比怎么说的了 You heard the rabbi.
很明显就是他杀的你母亲 It's clear he killed your mother.
知道是你父亲干的 Knowing what your father did,
如果你帮他逃脱惩罚 余生怎么面对自己 how can you live with yourself if you help him go free?
不帮的话 我又该怎么办 How could I live with myself if I don't?
你要输了 也不意味着可以改规矩 'Cause you're losing, doesn't mean you can change the rules.
你这叫篡改证词 This is called tampering.
我没有在教唆证人 I'm not tampering with a witness.
我在和被告谈话 I am now talking to a defendant.
Feder夫人 你做了伪证 Mrs. Feder, you committed perjury.
同样 也会是共犯 As such, you are an accomplice after the fact.
你不能让Mara和我对立 You cannot turn Mara against me.
世事还是没变是吧 先生 Things haven't changed much, have they, sir?
五十年前 你以他人为代价 50 years ago, you protected yourself
保住了自己 at the expense of others.
现在你妻子死了 Your wife is now dead,
你女儿要坐牢 这样你就自由了 and your daughter's gonna go to prison so you can go free.
爸爸 Papa.
不顾我的反对 我委托人愿意达成认罪协议 Against my better judgment, my client will deal
如果你放弃对他女儿的控诉 if you drop the charges against his daughter.
绕了一大圈 我们又回到起点了 We've traveled a long way to come back to where we started.
还有一个条件 Stone先生 There's one other condition, Mr. Stone.
我父亲的审判记录必须封存 The record on my father's trial must be sealed.
二级谋杀 他服最高刑期 Murder two. He serves the max.
25年 得了吧 Ben 25 years. Come on, Ben.
他在街上逛一个小时 Had he walked the streets for another hour,
都没人认识他 nobody would have ever heard of David Steinmetz.
Steinmetz先生 Mr. Steinmetz.
你真的不知道 Sir, you really didn't know
你妻子吃了多少药么 how many pills your wife had taken?
她不能这样活着 She could not live with this.
我回到家 她就在地上 When I came home, she was on the floor.
如果你承认是帮助自杀 And if you confessed to assisted suicide,
就没人会怀疑了 是吧 nobody would ask any questions.
25年刑期就变成了1年了 是吧 It'd be one year instead of 25. Right?
Heinrich 纳粹党军官 他来到我家 Heinrich, an SS officer, he came to our home.
给我们蛋糕吃 我们当时几乎连面包都没有了 He gave us cake. We barely had bread.
他说如果我能 He told me that if I could
劝邻居合作的话 convince my neighbors to cooperate,
没有人会受伤的 none of us would be harmed.
我才19岁 我不干 总有人会干的 I was 19. If I didn't do it, somebody else would have.
人们能多活几个月 几周 People lived a few months, weeks,
几天 就是这样 days longer. That's what it was about.
没有经历过那一切的人 People who were not there,
永远不会懂的 they could never understand.
你妻子经历过那一切 先生 Your wife was there, sir.
她很清楚你做了什么 She understood very well what you did.
所以你就杀了她 And that's why you killed her.
达成协议吗 Deal?
现在什么情况 Stone先生 What happens now, Mr. Stone?
Steinmetz先生承认谋杀了自己的妻子 Mr. Steinmetz has confessed to murdering his wife
将会在丹尼摩拉市的州际监狱 and he will spend the rest of his life
度过余生了 in the State Correctional Facility at Dannemora,
判决立即执行 commencing immediately.
Steinmetz先生的确是Jacub Skulman吗 Is Mr. Steinmetz in fact Jacub Skulman?
地方检察办公室没有充分证据 The District Attorney's office has insufficient evidence
作出这个判断 to make such a determination.
国务院内部消息 Sources inside the State Department
进一步的引渡程序 indicate that any further extradition proceedings
因今天的进展而终止 have been undermined by today's developments.
Steinmetz先生的... Mr. Steinmetz's...
他们打你 饿你 They beat you. They starve you.
我开始想换做我 会怎么做 Makes me wonder what I would have done.
没有道德的最高法庭 朋友 There's no Supreme Court of Ethics, my friend.
有时候唯一的标准就是 Sometimes the only yardstick is
第二天你还能不能面对镜中的自己 can you look yourself in the mirror the day after?
那Mara怎么办 What about Mara?
坚持让我们密封文件 By insisting we seal the file,
她还是在保护她父亲 she was still protecting her father.
她不是在保护她父亲 She wasn't protecting her father.
是在保护她儿子 She was protecting her son.